Whenever people say communication from a tulpa feels alien, it always troubled me. It set us back a lot, over and over, because when this brain makes coherent thoughts, we can feel it. This is really common, people talk to their new tulpa and dismiss every response because it feels like them. Finally, if they ask for help, people will tell them that their tulpa really was talking and that's just how it can feel. And maybe one can get the brain to spit out some tulpa thoughts that feel more alien and like "you" (the brain) didn't think them, but this tends to be short quick unthought out responses, and people can get stuck at that stage too.
So when I hold a pendulum and see it's moving when I'm trying to hold my arm still... okay, it feels like the pendulum is moving on its own. But I think that would have made things really hard for me if I expected my tulpa to feel like something so outside of consciousness (and I'm not he only one)
Dissociation takes many different forms and this is just an extremely specific one. You dont learn "how dissociation feels", because it can feel many different ways.
Leiko
i don't think you understand that people that struggle with tulpamancy can talk and talk for months and it doesn't help them at all
Dissociation takes many different forms and this is just an extremely specific one. You dont learn "how dissociation feels", because it can feel many different ways.
From what I understand, the application of pendulum method is to help people feel tulpa's "presence". I think I know what kind of presence you're talking about. For me it was just side effect of early tries.
i do follow up on dms with people that don't say anything
1:20 AM
From what I understand, the application of pendulum method is to help people feel tulpa's "presence". I think I know what kind of presence you're talking about. For me it was just side effect of early tries.
@Alejandro - jump
yes and unfortunately not all people get the feeling of presence using other techniques
I don't doubt that it's effective in what's it's supposed to help you feel to be fair. What I am concerned about is if it's what beginners need more than knowledge.
Leiko
yuka what matters to me is that this method has literal 100% effectiveness with people even with people that struggle with it
"has literal 100% effectiveness"
In any case i believe its a really good method, i just dont like the advertisement.
Alejandro
I don't doubt that it's effective in what's it's supposed to help you feel to be fair. What I am concerned about is if it's what beginners need more than knowledge.
A red flag for me is saying that logical understanding gets in a way of tulpamancy tbh. It might not be the fastest way to reach a stage of having an imaginary friend that talks back to you. I think reaching that stage without understanding might not be a good idea though. It would be cool if people were taught properly what's going on when they feel that their tulpa talks back to them and they seemingly aren't in control of that.
Alejandro
A red flag for me is saying that logical understanding gets in a way of tulpamancy tbh. It might not be the fastest way to reach a stage of having an imaginary friend that talks back to you. I think reaching that stage without understanding might not be a good idea though. It would be cool if people were taught properly what's going on when they feel that their tulpa talks back to them and they seemingly aren't in control of that.
Anything that you understand through logic will be incorrect as there is no way to apply logic to blurry experiences other than making up meaningless frameworks through narrative.
Alejandro
A red flag for me is saying that logical understanding gets in a way of tulpamancy tbh. It might not be the fastest way to reach a stage of having an imaginary friend that talks back to you. I think reaching that stage without understanding might not be a good idea though. It would be cool if people were taught properly what's going on when they feel that their tulpa talks back to them and they seemingly aren't in control of that.
So reaching that state believing that you understand is a much worse idea.
2:01 AM
You are just defining and limiting arbitrary things.
This is the process from which every tulpamancy related complication arises.
2:02 AM
You believe you understand the pitfalls when you are just creating them yourself.
Desting 😎 (Con Cat)-(おひたし、お浸し)
Anything that you understand through logic will be incorrect as there is no way to apply logic to blurry experiences other than making up meaningless frameworks through narrative.
A red flag for me is saying that logical understanding gets in a way of tulpamancy tbh. It might not be the fastest way to reach a stage of having an imaginary friend that talks back to you. I think reaching that stage without understanding might not be a good idea though. It would be cool if people were taught properly what's going on when they feel that their tulpa talks back to them and they seemingly aren't in control of that.
@Alejandro - jump
1 - what's your method for getting the logical understanding of tulpamancy?
2 - what sources do you use?
3 - how do you protect yourself from falling into the trap of building a framework that is consistent, but far from being true? How do you know if your "logical understanding" is just rationalisation and a framework that has internal consistency, but has nothing to do with reality?
4 - do you care if what you believe to be logical explanations of tulpamancy to be true?
5 - do you care if what you tell other people to be the logical understanding of tulpamancy is true?
4:27 PM
6 - and most importantly, how do you self correct your logical process?
The main benefit I see is that your tulpa almost certainly has limitations. They have deficiencies in their development. They fail, almost certainly pretty frequently as well.
Being able to handle those failures is essential. You can't probe for those failures properly if you never take the time to question and be critical.
But there's a flip side, you can never progress if you take those failures and deficiencies as evidence that your tulpa isn't real.
For me, the answer is to just take things as they are and define your tulpas whatever you've built so far. Understanding the deficiencies and accepting them and treating your tulpa as your tulpa regardless, always driving to be better where those failures exist.
But if you try to cure failures by erasing your doubt, by saying you believe regardless of your experience. Man, it makes people go overboard, especially when you cross it with someone who is using a tulpa as some sort of friend or companion through hard times. As someone who posts from a critical perspective, you catch their attention every once in a while and I've gotten a handful of private messages not just don't want any of my posts to exist.
2:05 AM
I think it's the lack of that perspective, of identifying and working with failure, that's lead to our guides in the community being so lacking. When the predominant advice is to just believe, you can't write guides because you're never actually doing anything.
”For me, the answer is to just take things as they are and define your tulpas whatever you've built so far.” Yes i agree with that a lot!
I also agree with this: „But if you try to cure failures by erasing your doubt, by saying you believe regardless of your experience. Man, it makes people go overboard, especially when you cross it with someone who is using a tulpa as some sort of friend or companion through hard times.”
I think sometimes being reaffirming and giving support can be very helpful for someone to change their mindset that causes doubt, but it’s the act of being sympathy and compassion that helps here not saying the logical argument of „it’s about mindset, just change it!”. You could argue that many people’s cause for depression is a mindset, but telling a depression to just change their mindset will not work, because even if they do manage to improve just by doing that it will be superficial and the old mindset will be just covered by the new one, but the old one will always leak out unless it’s properly addressed. Sometimes it’s a long journey of personal growth that someone has to go by themselves.
Similar thing applies to tulpamancy which in my opinion is based on emotional intelligence (specifically self awareness and self management, but with a weird mix of social awareness and social management) and logical understanding can put you in the trap of rationalising a thing and mistaking your rationalisation for truth.
The situation is probably different for autistic people since as i understand it they need to use logic for any form of social interaction because they have no other choice, but it puts them in a very disadvantaged position
12:40 PM
one of the reasons why i think pendulum helps people is that many people never has an experience of alien presence or thought and might consider it impossible, having that experience with a pendulum can help with a dramatic shift of mindset, „wow my brain can actually do that!”
I think the important thing here is not to pursue any kind of truth or take too seriously any of what you achieve with logic.
As an autistic i also dont use logic for social interaction, at some point it was an imitation game (also not logic) and today its just automatic (although probably somewhat different to a normal person). We still fail in some social situations.
But with tulpas this has never been a problem as we have no need to read each others facial expressions or follow any kind of normative social rules inside our head.
As for identifying failure i dont think i use logic at all, i just pursue more of whatever i want more until im satisfied and thats it.
4:17 PM
The problem for autistic people is more about interacting with people with who they cannot relate i believe (That is: 98% of people arround you wont understand you and you wont understand them in certain situations). Im talking from my own experience though.
Leiko
one of the reasons why i think pendulum helps people is that many people never has an experience of alien presence or thought and might consider it impossible, having that experience with a pendulum can help with a dramatic shift of mindset, „wow my brain can actually do that!”
one of the reasons why i think pendulum helps people is that many people never has an experience of alien presence or thought and might consider it impossible, having that experience with a pendulum can help with a dramatic shift of mindset, „wow my brain can actually do that!”
Woah that's an awesome way of doing it, I can see how that can help the more kinaesthetically minded. Interesting to see how other people created their tulpas, never even talked to other tulpa people before
Woah that's an awesome way of doing it, I can see how that can help the more kinaesthetically minded. Interesting to see how other people created their tulpas, never even talked to other tulpa people before
@ayelike - jump
oh did you just join the community?
I think there is something interesting to it and correlates with my crusade to convince people that tulpamancy guides are very innefficient in tulpamancy practice and just get on the way of creating a tulpa which results with some people struggling for months in creating one, when in practice if you keep it simple it can take up to an hour to have a breakthrough.
Overthinking and using your logical brain in the process just slows you down. My approach is much more practical and just going for it and it seemed to work quite well with people.
Core of tulpamancy is that expectations drive your experience, and all you need is some help to shape those expectations. And it seemed like all the setting in Philip experiment was basically that, which is something similar to my methods of helping people with tulpamancy.
I wouldn’t say what they did necessarily is tulpamancy, but definitely uses the same base and mechanisms in the brain that are used in tulpamancy.(edited)
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